I am aware of low dissolved oxygen brewing and I've read up on the techniques used, some of which would be painful or expensive to implement on my current system so I probably won't go there. I know DCB plays with this stuff and has had good results.
I can easily minimise oxygen take-up on doughing in, as I do BIAB full volume brewing in urn: Boil strike water then cover surface with close fitting disc (silicone sheet or something? Will explore Bunnings) to keep O2 out. Dough in very quickly and replace sheet for the mash. After hoisting and squeezing bag with my pressing tool add oxygen scavenger as wort comes up to boil. Replace sheet at end of boil while trub drops. Run into CO2 flushed cubes and seal tightly.
Sounds like a plan, I'll get me off to Bunnings before next brew.
To be is to do (Descartes) To do is to be (Jean Paul Sartre) Do be do be do (Frank Sinatra)
Post by biggusrdevus on Dec 1, 2019 9:58:35 GMT 10
TBH I'm just a bit cynical by nature and if you'll indulge the digression into existentialism, what I question is if DO was such a fundamental biggie, just how did we get to where we are today, how did we brew beer that was attractive enough and not so negatively impacted by DO that we wanted to brew some more and not pour a glass of chateau legopener or spirits instead, or heaven forbid, water or juice. OTOH, I'm not denying there might be some technical improvements to be had and I'll always support critical thinking, continual improvement and innovation based on a better understanding, plus the development of novel techniques, however I'm still struggling with whether there's actually such a big bad bogeyman lurking down the bottom of the garden. I'd need to be a bit clearer about which nut we're trying to crack here before launching into the wholesale renewal of equipment, ingredients and process, bearing in mind that some of the literature indicates hops character, some says malt, some says shelf life and flavour stability, but much of it just seems to be just for the sake of it without much in the way of objectives, plus there's the notion that unless the entire process is low-DO then don't bother coming. Happy to hear other views of course, welcome that very much and given this is a poll I sense its worth hearing them, I for one would be glad to be educated.
I've tried the efforts of avoiding DO like well boiled water to deplete the DO for mash water and sparge water and underletting. Avoid splashing, hot side aeration as much as possible. It made great beer and somewhat convinced me there is something to it for the efforts. Then again I've made beer disregarding it all as well like use rain water that is highly oxygenated just heated to strike temps and sparge temps. That made great beer too and lasts the time of aging as well. So I'm not that convinced the efforts make a big difference at least for many a broad variety of home brews. Agree the beers that may show it would be the lightest palest, cleanest styles mentioned. The hardest of styles as they cant hide any faults whatsoever. They would be the ones to concern over the most. I used to have a habit of adding a crushed cinnamon stick to the mash (40lt batch) as a tip I picked up in my earliest of brewing. Recommended by Charlie Papazian as an Anti Oxidant effect to combat the negatives of hot side aeration. Give that as much weight as you will. It may have a positive effect too I must take more of a focus to the beers I did that and the beers I just forget to do that. I'd rather the natural thing rather than other chemicals like Campden Tablets etc. I was certain when I've only used Campden tablets once it had a negative effect on the flavor. My body cringes at the smell of Sodium Metabisulphite so I don't have a bar of it.
The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
DO is certainly something to be mindful of, and it is something I seek to minimise, but on the hot side there is only so much I can realistically do with the limited time I have to brew.
I avoid splashing where I can, e.g. keep wort returns submerged, but with a 1V setup I'm not in a position to underlet the mash at the moment.
I'm particularly aware when it comes to hop-forward and hazy beers - but I don't do anything procedurally different on the hot side.
On the cold side, I only add hops at yeast pitch or up to 24hrs after. I draw off a bottle before and after my kegging (into a cold CO2 purged keg) to avoid splashing, then purge the headspace before setting to carb at serving pressure.
Post by Jack-of-all-biers on Dec 1, 2019 13:15:08 GMT 10
The poll is a bit limited, so hard to vote with any accuracy for what I do and why. So here is my educated opinion (still just an opinion though, so take it with whatever amount of salt you like).
I'd agree that oxidation is an issue to be minimized, but one that can't be avoided. Malting processes rely on oxygen for germination for starts. It is a given that minimizing oxygen ingress from then on is a good thing, but the balance between that and expenditure on equipment or processes to get there is another. Much is made of the hot side, but for me it is too much trouble for the subjectively perceived benefit.
My take on it is that the slight retention (if any) of flavour and aroma compounds from hot side efforts is miniscule relative to the extra time and energy/consumable costs (not to mention adding preservatives [sulphites] for which I agree with DCB).
Minimising splashing is a given, but a necessarily thorough mixing of the grist will cause mixing of air into the mash, so in my mind negates all the pre-boil malarkey anyway. I underlet, but not because of DO prevention. Call it habit based originally on the idea it might prevent dough balls (it doesn't, but it's convenient to my system/process). Minimising the mash head space is a good idea as it minimizes heat loss and is not hard, but I'd question how effective it'd be at keeping O2 out unless it had a gas tight seal (fiddly too achieve on most homebrewer's setups).
Regarding discarding the use of copper containing equipment to prevent the 'super oxidizer compounds'. I'm sceptical, as cleaning these properly (including removing oxidised surfaces from time to time) is not hard. Though it is the easiest to do as per the OP linked article, again it comes down to good practices would minimize this occurrence.
Post fermentation is where I put my efforts to minimize DO for what it's worth. Sealed fermentation, purging the receiving kegs (via bottled CO2 or better via fermentation CO2) and cold storage from then on are my main weapons against oxidation. However, fresh is best and always will be. If one brews 100L which is consumed over 6-12 months, but the last 50-20L are suffering lack of flavour/aroma due to believed oxidation issues, there are two far easier options than much of listed in the German brewing website. 1. Drink quicker😉; or 2. Reduce your brew volume to that of consumption (look at Grott who brews 10-12L at a go. His beer will generally be fresher than my 50L batches at the same consumption rate).
Post by covebrewing on Dec 4, 2019 10:24:58 GMT 10
Ive just jumped on the low oxygen band wagon recently and after one brew jumped back off again. I went from a 3V system to a Guten to make brew day easier. Low DO just adds a lot more time to a brew day for which the results just arent worth the hassle. i will try as much as possible to minimize wort splashing etc but I dont brew any lighter style lagers etc for which i think Low DO is more suited too.
grumpypaul: So it would seem you can edit the Shoutbox comments of other users.....Not that I would ever do such a thing.
Sept 23, 2019 13:14:00 GMT 10
grmblz: (You have insufficient privileges to reply here.) Oops! did I prod a little too hard, I asked if all they had were 24 "PRO" supporters going for the give away then how many active members did they actually have, post removed along with my privileges.
Sept 20, 2019 21:07:13 GMT 10
Nullnvoid: Looks like Admin on AHB is up to his new old tricks....
Sept 17, 2019 8:47:20 GMT 10