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Post by SponsorSFC on Jun 11, 2019 13:25:12 GMT 10
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Post by Lord Raja Goomba I on Jun 11, 2019 13:55:05 GMT 10
Saw this (also on special) at Hoppy Days. Keen to give it a go.
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Post by technobabble66 on Jun 11, 2019 19:20:50 GMT 10
Lol. Saw it in grain & grape & took a pic to post here, but ... well ... life got in the way & never got around to it 😉  Anyone used it yet? PS: don’t you just love attenuation given as a descriptor rather than a number?! 😒 Wtf is “moderate to high”? ~75%? ... 78%?
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Post by MTB on Jun 11, 2019 21:54:25 GMT 10
PS: don’t you just love attenuation given as a descriptor rather than a number?! 😒 Wtf is “moderate to high”? ~75%? ... 78%? To be fair I think a vague descriptor is best, it's impossible to predict attenuation to the percent
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Post by DCB on Jun 11, 2019 22:04:31 GMT 10
Low is like 70%. High is like 80%, so medium 75%. +/-5% in practice.
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Post by technobabble66 on Jun 12, 2019 7:07:52 GMT 10
PS: don’t you just love attenuation given as a descriptor rather than a number?! 😒 Wtf is “moderate to high”? ~75%? ... 78%? To be fair I think a vague descriptor is best, it's impossible to predict attenuation to the percent I understand and agree in principle, but all of us use spreadsheets/calculators to predict numbers. So why not give a range, like white labs & wyeast? Something like 73-77% so it reinforces that the exact attenuation varies from batch to batch, but at least I’d know on average to expect 75% (& if everything is set up perfectly, then I’ll get 77%). They’d have the numbers, so I don’t see the harm is just giving out some numbers. Hell, they could say the same, then give the numbers in brackets like 75+/-5%. I know by now we should know roughly what the numbers would be with those descriptors, but it just seems like an unnecessary withholding of information - one of my pet peeves. /end rant 😄
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Post by davidm on Jun 12, 2019 8:30:19 GMT 10
I understand and agree in principle, but all of us use spreadsheets/calculators to predict numbers. So why not give a range, like white labs & wyeast? Something like 73-77% so it reinforces that the exact attenuation varies from batch to batch, but at least I’d know on average to expect 75% (& if everything is set up perfectly, then I’ll get 77%). They’d have the numbers, so I don’t see the harm is just giving out some numbers. Hell, they could say the same, then give the numbers in brackets like 75+/-5%. I know by now we should know roughly what the numbers would be with those descriptors, but it just seems like an unnecessary withholding of information - one of my pet peeves. /end rant 😄 If they put a number on it and someone brews and takes measurements and doesn't achieve those numbers, then they're open to complaints and potentially on the hook for refunds.
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Post by breakline on Jun 12, 2019 9:23:21 GMT 10
I like to know a range so I can see how well it's attenuated, as an indicator of the health of the yeast.
I know that mash temp has a bit to do with how far it will attenuate, so is that why ranges are stated? ie. Mash at 63deg will give 82% attenuation, mash at 68deg will give 75% attenuation?
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Post by davidm on Jun 12, 2019 9:58:04 GMT 10
I like to know a range so I can see how well it's attenuated, as an indicator of the health of the yeast. I know that mash temp has a bit to do with how far it will attenuate, so is that why ranges are stated? ie. Mash at 63deg will give 82% attenuation, mash at 68deg will give 75% attenuation? I'd say partly. I'd suggest the other part is that attenuation isn't a linear thing. You would imagine yeast would attenuate a lower OG better than they would a higher OG, so it's a non linear response that depends on OG. But, to keep it simple and usable, they can give you a range or an average that is a middle ground between the two so that you can use a linear estimate.
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engibeer
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Post by engibeer on Jun 15, 2019 9:45:37 GMT 10
Nice, I just used K97 for a Kolsch... ferments with a decent range. Currently fermenting at 16C. Anyone used this to try and brew a kolsch? "Brewing Classic Styles" recommended US-05 fermented cold as a dry yeast option.
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Post by SponsorSFC on Jun 15, 2019 12:07:57 GMT 10
I haven't used K-97 but did use US-05 in a kit "Kolsch".
They will give you a nice neutral clean ale but it won't be quite a Kolsch. Nottingham will do similar at cold temps.
The Kolsch yeasts give you a subtle almost vinous ester that you don't get with other yeasts. It is what makes a Kolsch a Kolsch.
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niceguys
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Post by niceguys on Jun 15, 2019 12:39:54 GMT 10
I have brewed a lot of kolsch over the years mainly using Wyeast 2565 and love the subtle red apple and pear esters it gives off. I was excited to try K97 but it simply is not a Kolsch yeast. It gave off low level banana which was totally out of place in a Kolsch. Super excited to give this new yeast a go.
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engibeer
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Post by engibeer on Jun 15, 2019 14:05:26 GMT 10
Cheers, look forward to the next one.
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Post by Bribie on Jun 16, 2019 7:14:24 GMT 10
For attenuations, it's a good idea to just suck it and see over a couple of brews via refrac / hydrometer readings and insert the resulting figure into your software.
For example Melbourne Ale Yeast, when used with some of the recipes from the original Bronzed Brews got me as full as a boot on a few pints so I had to drastically alter those recipes to get them down to the correct ABV. Similarly a lot of Notto recipes.
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bensykes
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Post by bensykes on Jul 8, 2019 10:37:45 GMT 10
Anyone tried this? Pretty keen to give it a go here with a dry 62-70 step mash. Would be interested to compare with WLP029 / WLP036 and 2565. The fact they say it flocculates is a good start...
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Post by Lord Raja Goomba I on Jul 8, 2019 18:42:10 GMT 10
Very basic beer fermenting with it to allow character to shine through.
Same sort of experiment as my home brand yeast beer, so I have a sort of gauge.
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bensykes
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Post by bensykes on Jul 9, 2019 9:53:09 GMT 10
Well, i'm gonna order some and see how it goes. No home-grown hersbruck in it this time, but my normal kölsch recipe, 90% wey pils 5% vienna 5% wheat, 25 IBU , dry mash with a bit of CaCl2, perle hops to bitter and finish.
The spec stating 1 billion yeast per gram count worries me though, so i guess i need to use 2 packs. Hoping it a little different to WLP029, cos 2 packs worth is going to be the same price as a liquid anyway
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bensykes
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Post by bensykes on Aug 12, 2019 18:26:06 GMT 10
Anyone done a brew with this yet?
Finally found it for a decent price, ordered some and will probably do a split batch of a basic kolsch between 029 and the koln to see how it all goes.
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fatdrew
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Post by fatdrew on Aug 12, 2019 19:29:38 GMT 10
I have used it in a Berliner Weisse but it’s one component of a mixed culture co-pitch with brettanomyces and lactobacillus. I can offer feedback based on that but presume most want to know how it performs as a pure culture
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bensykes
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Post by bensykes on Aug 21, 2019 21:04:03 GMT 10
So I brewed a split batch last night. 15L of a basic recipe (see the what are you brewing 2019 thread for details if you are interested). I added about 5g into my 4 and a bit litres of wort of the Koln dry yeast after rehydrating. I have also done the same with WLP029, from about 25-30 mL of slurry from a starter, and another demijohn with Gigayeast GY021 Kolsch, about 40mL of slurry from a fresh pack, which is probably about a quarter of the pack. All 3 were aerated with an airstone + aquarium pump for about 5 minutes before pitching. The WLP029 went off first, it had a nice krausen to it this morning so about 8-9 hours lag time to krausen. The Gigayeast looked a bit slower, i ended up adding some extra slurry to that one and warming it up then it went nuts a couple of hours later, so probably about 13 hours to krausen. After that I felt bad for the dry yeast so i sprinkled a little more in, probably about 1 or 2 g, only a small amount. After all that dry yeast started last, it formed a krausen finally probably after about 16-18 hours after pitching (see below) Anyway so far so good. Nothing smells very sulfury yet but i find that takes a good couple of days to come out. Looking forward to the final result to see which one goes the best. Plus also looking forward to seeing how some mash pH adjustment with phosphoric + acidulated goes for a nice crisp / tart kolsch 
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bensykes
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Post by bensykes on Aug 26, 2019 10:23:14 GMT 10
So all good so far, took some refrac samples to adjust this morning so I didn't have to siphon a whole sample tube's worth from each. Fermentation is basically finished, although the WLP029 and GY021 finished a few days ago, the Koln has still been going.
Attenuation on the GY021 and Koln look the same, 1044 down to 1008. The White Labs is up around 1011/12, which is surprising as I always thought the white labs attenuates pretty well. The Koln's still got a slight krausen on it so it might end up getting another point or two.
Haven't tasted yet, going to wait for them to drop clear and then bottle.
Edit: For raw % attenuation numbers, GY021 = 82%, Koln = 82% (may be more), WLP029 = 75%. That's with a basic kolsch grainbill with 63C single infusion. I will take a proper hydro sample reading at bottling time as I think the WLP029 number is wrong and it still has a few points to go or needs to be warmed up a bit to finish.
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bensykes
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Post by bensykes on Aug 27, 2019 11:09:48 GMT 10
really quick update... pulled a little sample. been fermenting for a week. All of them have dropped pretty clear now, the koln is still fermenting just very slowly now. Edit: actually they're all still fermenting slowly, just had a slight air leak in the rubber bungs.
Pretty impressed with the taste for the dry yeast! It's dry, malty/crisp, clean but with enough esters to set it apart as a Kolsch from say US05. The GY021 tastes good too. Both of them taste better to my palate than the WLP029 batch (which is still alright, just outshone here a bit)... I'd have no hesitation in using it again. Huell Melon seems like a good hop to use in a kolsch as well
Going to give it another week or so then bottle & put some into mini kegs and see how it goes when carbonated.
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bensykes
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Post by bensykes on Sept 1, 2019 23:19:04 GMT 10
Bottled tonight. I was in a hurry to get it in the bottle so I can enter it in an upcoming comp. I didn't crash chill, lager or D-rest, it just sat at about 16C since pitching.
Thoughts on the uncarbonated samples...
The Dry kolsch yeast to me tasted damn good for a dry yeast. Plenty of the flavours you want in a Kolsch, with that subtle ester profile in an otherwise lager like ale. Was very clear, I ended up adding some gelatin and clarity ferm, but it looked like it would be pretty clear without them.
The Gy021 liquid yeast did a better job to my palate but it wasn't much different. Just had a little more esters and tasted a bit rounder.
Both seemed better than wlp029 which is saying alot, that was my go to for ages, but honestly now I'd just use the dry or gy021 instead.
Final SG and pH - starting SG 1044. Koln dry 1007 / pH 4.2 Gy021 1006 / pH 4.0 Wlp029 1008 / pH 4.2
I suspect the gy021 pH is wrong, may have got a bit of starsan in the sample, will test it with a carbed bottle once I crack one in a couple of weeks.
TL;DR version... Nothing wrong with the dry yeast at all.
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stubbie
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Post by stubbie on Sept 2, 2019 17:25:02 GMT 10
Like your work, Ben. Thanks for your effort and for sharing.
My last kolsch was with WLP029 and I haven't been totally wowed by the result, so your observations strike a chord.
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Post by Black Devil Dog on Sept 4, 2019 15:53:26 GMT 10
Haven't brewed a Kolsch for a while and thought I'd give this yeast a spin. Pretty disappointed so far I must say. 48 hours since I pitched it and there's barely a bubble on the surface. I'm going to re-hydrate my other pack and pitch that.
If that fails, I'll chuck some Notto at it, that'll get it firing.
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bensykes
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Post by bensykes on Sept 4, 2019 17:00:13 GMT 10
Haven't brewed a Kolsch for a while and thought I'd give this yeast a spin. Pretty disappointed so far I must say. 48 hours since I pitched it and there's barely a bubble on the surface. I'm going to re-hydrate my other pack and pitch that. If that fails, I'll chuck some Notto at it, that'll get it firing. It was slow to start for me. Did you pitch two packs or just the one and did you rehydrate? I forgot to say earlier that while it does taste good, 2 packs at $6 or $7 each makes it not much cheaper than a liquid yeast, plus a liquid yeast you can split up and make a starter each time you need it...
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Post by Black Devil Dog on Sept 5, 2019 21:24:18 GMT 10
Haven't brewed a Kolsch for a while and thought I'd give this yeast a spin. Pretty disappointed so far I must say. 48 hours since I pitched it and there's barely a bubble on the surface. I'm going to re-hydrate my other pack and pitch that. If that fails, I'll chuck some Notto at it, that'll get it firing. It was slow to start for me. Did you pitch two packs or just the one and did you rehydrate? I forgot to say earlier that while it does taste good, 2 packs at $6 or $7 each makes it not much cheaper than a liquid yeast, plus a liquid yeast you can split up and make a starter each time you need it... Only pitched one pack, but I pitched it at ambient - about 18 degrees - and dropped the temp to 15 deg over the next 24 hours, I did consider using 2 packs but being the first time I'd used it I decided to go with one and see how it went. Possibly erred with that decision. Always re-hydrate, although the recommended re-hydration temp range of 30 - 35 doesn't really give me a whole lot of confidence, but followed their advice nevertheless. Not sure how yeast are going to cope when going from fridge temp, to ambient, to 30/35 deg, to pitching temp all within about half an hour. Might be wrong, but common sense would tell me to re-hydrate closer to pitching temp. ie low/mid 20's. It's been over 24 hours since I pitched the second pack (re-hydrated as per instructions) and still can't detect any activity.
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bensykes
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Post by bensykes on Sept 23, 2019 11:28:17 GMT 10
Not sure which way round it was, but I just got back results from the NSW state comp and scored 1st and 2nd place in the pale ale/hybrid category with two of the beers from the split wort experiment , with GY021 and Lalbrew koln. 84 and 78 points, the 78pt beer ended up winning the category after the mini-BOS round. Edit: The original 84 pointer beer was the Koln dry, the GY021 scored 78pts, due to some sulfur as it was young. But by the time the mini-BOS round was run the sulfur must have gone away and the GY021 ended up pipping the Koln to the 1st place, but the Koln still took 2nd. Edit: Also wrote-up what I did here - sykesey.id.au/?p=12
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Post by SponsorSFC on Nov 4, 2019 14:33:25 GMT 10
I brewed up a double batch of Kolsch wort and split it into two separate batches.
The first with Wyeast 2565 (2L starter) and the second with LalBrew Koln (2 rehyrated packets). Both fermented at 14C.
The Koln was very slow to take off with no sign of fermentation for about 36 hours whereas the 2565 was up and running within 24 hours.
Once it got going the Koln fermented reasonably quickly hitting FG on day 7 which was the same as the 2565.
I have packaged both and should be ready to compare come the weekend.
The data sheet for the Koln says: "Through expression of a β-glucosidase enzyme, Köln can promote hop biotransformation and accentuate hop flavor and aroma".
Given the above and that Kolsch yeasts are normally slow to drop clear, I though that this may also be be desirable yeast in a NEIPA.
As I had a large healthy amount of yeast harvested from the FermZilla, I pitched at 16C it into a NEIPA I had brewed on Saturday. There was no lag on this brew with a large krausen formed by Sunday morning.
At the rate it is going it will hit FG today.
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mrwibble
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Post by mrwibble on Nov 5, 2019 14:32:30 GMT 10
No-one has mentioned it explicitly, so I will add:
The pitching requirements on the packet suggest one gram per litre. Packet contains 10 grams.
The price I paid for this yeast, a pack of WLP029 would have been cheaper for a 20 litre batch. I don't brew beer to save money, but it seems a bit expensive.
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